We are eagerly anticipating the re-opening of our building on Sunday. Much work has been done and we are looking forward to meeting in a building that is more accessible and open to the community around us. There are various things I would love local people to be able to see. But one of the things that I hope will be visible is that this is a church where different generations come together and are united- perhaps in a way that is unusual in our society.
In Ephesians 3 Paul talks about how the union between the Jews and the Gentiles in the church shows the “manifold wisdom of God.” The same is true when different social classes or ethnic groups come together as one people under Christ. And I think you could say that the same is true when people of different generations are united. To use another biblical image, people of a variety of ages having loving relationships really does show the church to be family.
A while ago I read this article from David Green (formerly of Woody Road)- Generational Differences in Church. It is a wide ranging article reflecting on the various cultural changes that have happened in this country over the last half century, meaning that a church that seeks to include within it a variety of generations will have a mingling of different cultures. Sometimes that can produce tension and David seeks to plot some potential ways through this. Essentially, David warns against seeing one culture as superior to others.
I’m not proposing to review the article particularly but, rather, to make some application to our situation at Woody Road. For those who read both pieces, my debt to David will be obvious. I am not writing this because I am aware of particular problems. Indeed, when I speak about the church, the generational diversity of the church is something I tend to celebrate. Although I am about to leave it to start our group thinking about reaching into Kidlington, I have loved being part of a homegroup that is mainly young but is hosted by John and Kath Callow- a retired missionary couple now in their eighties. So, for us, this post is more about preventing a problem from growing and enabling good things to continue than solving an existing difficulty. It might also be worth saying that I am about to generalise like mad and that, in truth, not everybody fits their generational stereotype- we have lots of young hearted older people amongst us and some younger people who would probably have enjoyed being Victorians…
Let me make five points…
1. We need to remember that we bring our culture with us.
It is very easy for us to bring to the church a sense of “Well, obviously it should be done like this.” We simply sense that something must be right. Various things will influence us in this regard- it may well be the values of our generation, it could be linked to our temperament or personality or often we simply accept the cultural values of the church in which we were converted or had our most significant period of Christian growth. None of us can escape this and we each need to recognise that this has a major impact on how we feel about various things. It is true for young and old alike. When we are tempted to get into generational clashes, we need to ask the question “Am I really arguing from biblical conviction or simply a desire to cherish my culture?”
2. We need to learn to critique our own generation’s culture
In his article, David lists a variety of differences between a pre-1960s culture and a post-1960s culture. He notes that each has its own strengths and weaknesses. I appreciate the point that he makes that we need to be careful not simply to talk about a decline in standards in the modern generation. Whilst we would be right to regret the movement in sexual morality away from biblical norms, we should rejoice that, for instance, racism is no longer regarded as acceptable (and certainly should not write this off as political correctness.) Of course it is sad that the argument against racism is not framed in the biblical idea that we are all equally made in the image of God- but nevertheless we should be glad of its decline if not yet its complete demise.
But let me return to the idea of the strengths and weaknesses of each culture and illustrate with a couple of examples. David notes the relative formality of an older generation and the informality of a younger generation. I suppose I would confess to being young in this area- I don’t particularly like formality. And I think that there are dangers with it- the church is to be a family (which I think should warn against too much formality in our relationships) and is to be marked by joy that at some level should be visible. Nevertheless I was struck recently by a comment from another youngish pastor who noted that it can sometimes be hard to be informal and convey the sense that we are serious about God. There are potential pitfalls on either side of that debate and it would be good to recognise that.
Or let me mention another one that I have observed where there is often a generational split. Privacy is something that is highly valued within English culture generally and, I suspect, particularly, amongst an older generation. Can I be candid? I think there are spiritual dangers attached to it and I would regard it as far from a biblical virtue. After all, we are to bear one another’s burdens and even to confess our sins to one another- rather than being isolated in our problems or sins. But there are other dangers for the younger generation- namely those of exhibitionism. As we update our statuses on Facebook, compose our latest tweet or write our latest blog (?!) there is the danger that we have a self-centred approach to the world and end up more interested in our own thoughts than those of others.
However, rather than spot the problem with another age group each generation needs to be aware of its own potential weaknesses.
3. We need to see the strengths of another generation’s culture
The temptation will always be to see the problems. The young will dismiss the old as being traditional and out of touch whilst the old may critique the young as frivolous and superficial. This is too easy. Again, let me give you a couple of examples. I was encouraged when an older pastor said to me recently that he thought my generation was better at forming open friendships that were better at being intentional in helping each other to combat patterns of sin and spurring each other on to live for Christ. But I have to say that I think my generation has a lot to learn about perseverance from an older generation. I think we are tempted to expect everything to be superficially enjoyable and need to learn from those who have gone before what it means to keep going through tough times without lots of complaining but with a steadfast trust in the Lord.
4. We need to talk to each other
Different generations need to learn from each other- because each will bring its own cultural strengths and weaknesses. In particular, I think we would want to say that the younger generation needs to learn from the one that has gone before. (Just in passing I would notice the cultural trend for our political leaders to get younger- I am not sure this is a good thing…). That can only happen when different generations talk to each other. It is why I am cautious about too many age specific groups within church life and would point blank refuse to run a group for people in their twenties which replaced multi-generational homegroups. But homegroups can only go so far. Can I encourage us to practise (or, as is mostly the case, keep practising) hospitality outside our own generational group? And speak to people with the desire to learn from them.
5. Churches will need to change- cautiously…
Much of David’s article goes on to discuss issues in church life such as music, versions of the Bible used and so on. After all that is where generational differences can often be seen most clearly. When it comes to these issues, I would be keen for us to see that much of our viewpoint comes from our culture rather than biblical conviction and then apply the critique and appreciation method mentioned above.
I want to say that I agree with David’s statement completely- “A church must not reflect the culture of any one generation if it is to reach all.” Now, at one level there is a different discussion to be had as to the role of culture in reaching people and whether it is possible to reach several different cultural groups at the same time. Nevertheless I do want the church to be made up of different generations and that means that it must not slavishly follow any one culture.
That means that churches do need to change over time. I do think it is unhelpful, for instance, for churches to enshrine in stone a pre-1960s musical tradition, expectations about dress and so on. Frankly that would communicate a message that the younger generation were not welcome. In my 14 years here at the church I have seen us change a lot in that regard- and I am convinced that has been right. Being a member of the younger generation, I have seen changes that have made me feel more at home- and I am aware there has probably been something of a cost to the older generation. The challenge for me is that if I am still a pastor in twenty years time I need to be making changes that will probably be uncomfortable for me. This ongoing change is essential if the church is not to become linked to one generation alone.
But that change must be cautious- in two ways. As I say above, the church must not appeal to one generation alone. So whilst a younger generation must be included, the church cannot appeal to that generation alone. As a youngish pastor, I’ve deliberately held back from changes that might have appealed to me personally. It means that whilst an older generation may find some changes hard, the younger generation will probably find the pace of change too slow. All of that is probably an indication of health- if one generation is completely happy it probably indicates that another is being excluded.
Secondly, changes need to be done helpfully. I read one review of David’s article that criticised it because it opened the door to modern music which inevitably meant poor lyrics, musical showmanship, the congregation being drowned out and so on. I want to say that would be to introduce change badly. You don’t introduce rubbish because a younger generation might like it. Rather you change things in a way that is biblically helpful. On the music front, that would mean looking for modern music with helpful lyrics (as well as holding on to older hymns), seek musicians with servant hearts, ensure they act to support rather than dominate a congregation and retain a variety of styles that appeal to a variety of age groups.
Above all though what is required is love and a desire that the church display the wisdom of God rather than appeal to my cultural preferences. It is no surprise that Paul follows his description of the church’s purpose in Ephesians 3 with the call in Ephesians 4 to be “completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love.” If we follow that command we will continue to be a church made up of different generations displaying the wisdom of God.
Sorry, I can’t access David’s article!
Sorry Peter- should be fixed!
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There is too much for me to read so I will simply state my oiopnin sorry if it is already here. There are issues which vary for church to church and principals that are true everywhere. It is my belief that the principals are the key to changing the issues. There are many tensions but they seem to me to be issues of perspective.The biggest challenge for older people is to trust and inspire young people. Trust by letting people make mistakes and learn by leading. (this is essential to allow young people to lead up) Inspire by using the wisdom gained by age to guide direct and encourage the next generation of leaders to step up.The principle is that it is the older generations responsibility to train the younger. The tension is that we don’t like change, or we are afraid of mistakes. (Andy Stanley had a great lesson on letting younger people make mistakes so they become great leaders in his Leadership Podcast)The biggest challenge for younger people is respect and discipline. Respect those God has placed above you and follow them even when they are wrong. Learn the Discipline to work hard no matter what, find what you can do and do it with all your strength. You lead up by being Aaron and Hur and doing whatever you can to fulfill the dreams and vision of those who are over you.The principle is that the younger generation serves the older. The tension is that we don’t want like to wait.(Side note about music: one of the biggest tension in churches is over music. It is generally seen as a generational issue. The issues is normally that every generation loves the music that they had an encounter with God with. It is my oiopnin that music should be used to teach theology and to have an encounter with God for the next generation. So the older generation. I don’t need music to inspire me, if I want it I will listen to my iPod. But I want this generation to encounter God and the truth of who he is stuck in their mind. So those who have had their experience with God encourage trying to reach the next generation.)Nathan: 29 Student ministries pastor
In response to the Leading up qusotien .I am a 31 year old pastor who has been involved in some form of ministry since 17 (full time since age 20)1) you lead up by 1st making yourself easy to lead if you first sow the seed of being easy to lead (not being a puppet) and you will reap that from those above you2) you lead up out of relationship .the better the relationship the better they will trust and listen to you3) lead up by building a track record of wins and being right .most young leaders jump on the scene with an arrogance of knowing it all and haven’t proven themselves to those older than them those older are looking for fruit not just ideas 4) lead out of submission and humility .you have to realize you are not the lead or the sr .you have to submit your ideas with humility and realize they may get rejected you can’t wear your emotions on your sleeve and get upset .the rejection of your ideas is not a rejection of you don’t take it personal5) defend and honor the Older Generation and not just in front of them to see again seed being sown those are a few ways to lead up I think the biggest challenge for the Older Generation .Handing over what they have worked so hard for,,,given so much for for so many years handing it over and delegating it to a young, crazy, somewhat immature leader with fear they will destroy what they have invested years building For the Younger We take for granted what the older has invested we don’t see the blood sweat and tears they have given .we just think get out of our way we can do better We must value them and realize that it is only because of the sacrifice of the older generation and the trail they have blazed that we can continue to do bigger and better things We are standing on their shoulders .and we need to continue to stand on them receive from them and value their wisdom and experience There is a great power and synergy when Generations are working together The Crazy Energy and risk taking attitude added to the wisdom, experience, and stability of the Older makes an unbeatable Combination
Hey Everyone,First, I think we should focus not just on what tnneioss exists, but how they can be leveraged for good and the progress of the church. Considering the fact that the Catalyst Conference is called Tension is Good and Andy Stanley talked about The Upside of Tension , we should see what we can take this tension and make it work.Second, I am a sixteen year old. I see first hand the tension that exists between the older and newer generation. At times, the younger generation is treated as the future, not as the now. I think that is a mistake. At times, the older generation is treated as distant and unneeded, as if their time for leadership and service was already up.Thirdly, to use this tension for our benefit, we need to treat both generations equally but differently. Equally in the sense that both the thoughts, dreams, and hopes of both generations are valid and should be listened to. Some churches try to take out the tension by just letting one group decide and discuss, either the young or the old. For example, while my church was having a leadership meeting, I was downstairs babysitting. The next way we can resolve tension is look at where both people are coming from. The new generation has new ideas and passions, while the old generation has more experience and wisdom. When we try to discredit one or the other, things don’t work.Fourthly, I think that the older generation needs to invest and love the young generation so that they in turn will respect and honor the older. If we have that mentor-ship relationship with each other, we will be able to see that both generations are important. We shouldn’t treat the young or the old generation as the future or the past, but as the now. This tension is never going to go away. It will always exist. I want to be part of ministries that loves, invests, and prepares the younger generation to take its place to be part of the church, not to wait until the old generation dies. I want to be part of a church where the old generation knows that their time is not forever and its not about their legacy, but about the kingdom of God. I want to be part of a church where the older generation is respected and honored, not because of their position or their power, but because of their influence and leadership they provide. I want to be part of a church that doesn’t see generational tension as a problem, but as a tool to advance the kingdom of God. I want to be a part of a church where every person has a Paul to lead and love them and a Timothy to empower and equip. Are you type of church? Are you that type of leader, whether young or old?
In my opinion, there is a dinrffeece between love marriage and negotiated marriage . What has been described is definitely negotiated marriage, because the premise of asking the other person is premedidated i.e. you have already decided that he/she is good marriage material. When you meet somebody and realize that you have good chemistry with them amd this closeness/compatibility translates into a wish to marry that in my definition is love marriage. There is a lot more spontaniety in the second case over the first. That’s how I like to see it.